Everyone Is Wrong About Everything with The Friendly Atheist

Doug Berger 0:00
Oh, I noticed too. You mentioned it briefly earlier that unlike a lot of atheists you never you have never seen like you were on that believers are stupid burn the church’s train. What made you what made you tack towards engagement with believers?

Hemant Mehta 0:21
This is probably more true now than it was back then. But like, everyone is wrong about everything. It’s the internet right? Like everybody is wrong about whatever opinions they hold. Religion is one of them.

Voice Over 0:35
This is Glass City Humanist, a show about humanism, humanist values by a humanist. Here’s your host, Douglas Berger.

Doug Berger 0:44
We talked to Hemant Mehta, also known as the Friendly Atheist, about his move to OnlySky.media, how he came to atheism, his thoughts on banning books and other Christian nationalist activities, and his mantra that if you don’t like something, get active

Voice Over 1:02
Glass City Humanist is an outreach project of the Secular Humanists of Western Lake Erie, building community through compassion and reason for a better tomorrow.

Doug Berger 1:20
Hemant Mehta is the founder and editor of friendly atheists.com, a YouTube creator and podcast co host. He has appeared on CNN and Fox News and Jeopardy, and served on the board of directors has served on the board of directors of several groups, including foundation beyond belief and the Secular Student Alliance. He’s authored a few books such as I sold my soul on eBay, and a young atheist Survival Guide. Thank you for joining us today. Hemet.

Hemant Mehta 1:48
Absolutely. Thank you for having me.

Doug Berger 1:53
And I also want to add to that, unlike some atheist celebrities, and that keeps a relatively low public profile and supports social justice issues. I just need to get that out there.

Hemant Mehta 2:04
Yeah.

Doug Berger 2:06
I’ve been reading your blog friendly atheists for some years now. It’s one of my go to blogs. And at the end of 2021, you and several atheists authors left pathos, which was your platform at that and set up a new platform called only sky media. Why did that happen?

Hemant Mehta 2:24
The short answer is patios has had different owners over the years I’ve been with them for I was with them for like, over a decade, I think. And they had maybe three different owners over the time. And it’s always a tricky game of how do you monetize a website like that, that offers commentary on religion from a variety of perspectives. And the new owner who was in there decided? Consider this, the people who tend to draw the most eyeballs to the site are the atheists and the people who are critical of religion. But the people who offer the most money to the website, because they want to advertise to this faith based audience. And people who care about religion tend to be Christians with a lot of money, they want to people to buy their books, they want to sell the things that are doing. And so you have this conflict, where atheists are the draw to this religion website. And that’s not great if you’re trying to sell advertising spots to Christians trying to hock their goods. And so ultimately, the decision was made that path Theosis is going to go in a still, we’re going to have a multitude of religious views. But we’re mostly going to assume religion is a good thing, and have perspectives based off of that, and that that’s not a good fit for me, because I don’t think it’s a good thing. And so here’s what I would appreciate. I mean, it’s a business decision, I can’t be mad that they felt that’s what they had to do to make money. I understand that as much as it sucks for the atheists. But they gave us enough time and advanced warning that we could try to figure out whatever we wanted to do next, while still being able to publish on their site for as long as we did. So they gave us an off ramp with enough time. And at the same time, while all that is happening. This project kind of gets underway that ultimately got called only Sky, which is a chance to say let’s have a default setting of we can be critical of religion, because it deserves to be criticized. But beyond that, let’s also just go beyond the question of God, does God exist? Because for guys like you guys like me? I’ve settled that question. I don’t need any more reinforcement on that thing. What’s interesting to me is how it plays out in politics and culture. But for other people, it’s like, well, how do I raise my kids without religion? How do I go through work and life and the things that we all go through without religion? And there are so many writers on there who have done different perspectives on that. So it’s a great fit in that sense, where we still have the same flexibility and leeway to talk about whatever we want. But there’s, it’s a lot more professional, we have people who are editors and digital teams and tech people to help out with that. And it’s kind of a hopefully the start of something bigger for this kind of online atheist world, too. So it turns out, you know, one, whatever the saying is one door closed, another open, but it all kind of worked out well, for the atheists who used to be writing in Matthews, I think, I hope so first.

Doug Berger 5:39
Okay. And I know, I know, it’s still early in it in its it’s still in its infancy, the format. But what I noticed is it’s more article or topic centric, rather than author centric. Because I remember Yeah, first, you go to the atheist page, and it was you and whoever, and you could click on it. Now it’s more topic. Topical, right? Because, yeah, go ahead. Well, I just gonna say, are you worried about losing viewers or traffic because of that? Because you’re not prominent, like, have a link on the on the front page. And

Hemant Mehta 6:17
I actually discovered, I wonder, I wonder if the discovery on patios actually brought people to me because usually, if people came upon my articles at patios, it’s maybe because they saw it on Facebook, or Reddit, or Twitter or something. And it’s not necessarily because they went to patheos.com saw my picture somewhere and decided to click on it. So I disagree with the premise of that. But here’s, here’s what I like about it. I think a lot of people who might check out only sky, everyone has a thing they’re interested in, whether it’s politics, or science, or the arts, music, some are personal stories, whatever it is, and that’s a good thing. That’s a better way. I mean, that’s how newspapers are organized, right? You have the Op Ed sections, you have the news and sports, and you’re not necessarily going for a person. But if there is a writer you like, there’s an easy way to follow that person specifically. So I don’t think anything has changed. For me personally, I still have all the outlets to promote the stuff that I’ve always had. But for people who specifically are new, and don’t know who the hell I am, and why would they, they have a way to say like, I need I want to atheists take on whatever happened at the Oscars, or whatever happened in sports, that is interesting. And maybe that article is out there. And the cool thing is because there are so many writers, we’re able to cover so many different topics. And sometimes, there are multiple ways of looking at a particular situation, even among atheists. So it’s kind of cool that we all kind of have that leeway to write about it. So to answer your question, like, it’s not about me, and I think that’s a good thing. Because whoever cares about me, they can find me, it’s easy to follow my page. If you’re like me, it’s easy to find my stuff online. But for the people who know nothing about me or who are new to atheism, and maybe they stumbled on the page. It doesn’t have to be about me, they can find the stuff that might appeal to them specifically. And unlike patios, where like, if you followed certain people, you’re only getting one kind of article. I’m telling you, there are so many different types. It’s not just let’s bash religion, or let’s trash Republicans or whatever things that might appeal to me. It’s a lot of stuff out there that that honestly as an atheist, who has been in this for a while and been writing about it for a while, there’s a lot of topics that are being covered that I’ve never seen covered in any other outlet before so that’s really exciting.

Doug Berger 8:51
Yeah, and I do I found I found the front page interesting. And it just initially I was like, where’s Hemet? I can’t find him. So I had to Yeah, I found something in social media that got me to your page and then I could follow you and and now you have like an email blast or something that goes out now and and if you’re

Hemant Mehta 9:12
if you’re looking for me, there’s a way to subscribe to my stuff specifically, there’s a way to get email blasts from me that’s that’s not a big deal. But what’s cool is like they have their sections like the humor section. They have SCI curious if you like the science stuff, they have all those sections so that if you have a particular thing you like to read about from a secular perspective, like for I’ll give you a quick example I don’t even know if this is up on only sky but I I read an article somewhere that said like the rings of Saturn are slowly disintegrating, they’re disappearing and in several hundreds of millions of years, they’re going to be gone. fascinating article. Is there a take on that story that might appeal to atheists specifically, like what does it say about our cosmos? You know, If that’s the sort of thing where the mainstream media isn’t going to care, they’re not going to write about that necessarily. But we could. I mean, I think the thing I wrote recently that got the most views was like a secular take on the Will Smith, Chris Rock fiasco at the Oscars, because faith was involved in that story to some extent, especially if you saw Will Smith’s acceptance speech later on. And again, I don’t think you’re going to find it anywhere else. So that to me is a bigger draw than the names attached to the to the articles.

Voice Over 10:36
For more information about the topics in this episode, including links used, please visit the episode page at Quest city humanist dot show.

Doug Berger 10:49
And I see that you were, I’m assuming, because it was part of your bio, that you were born and raised in a religious household? What led you to atheism? How did how did you get here?

Hemant Mehta 11:02
The thing for me specifically, is I believe it was my family was moving at a critical pivotal time in my childhood. And I just remember like, Oh, my God, I just made these close friends. I’m moving to a city where I don’t know anybody. Why would God do this to me? And listen, like the religion I was born into Jainism, they honestly don’t even believe in a Creator God, like, who was I even talking about? Who knows? But the thing that that move got me doing for the first time in my life, and I’m probably 14 years old, when this happens is it got me questioning God? And asking those questions that I was never given permission to ask before? And it’s not like I knew anybody really, that was guiding me in that direction. It’s like, wait a minute, what happens if I don’t believe in God? What happens? How come I believe in something that no one around me believes? Because I’m not in one of the popular religions. And it, the more I began looking into it, and this is we’re talking like, AOL dial up internet era, like, there was a way to ask questions and try to find answers online, even if those websites were like, shady as oil. But when I realized, oh, there are other people who have had this thought before, and the things they’re saying about God make a lot of sense. And no one in my family or my circles are saying these things. It’s like, oh, there’s something to this. And it didn’t take long for me to figure out oh, I don’t think God exists for anybody. So it’s not just me questioning my own faith. It’s questioning faith, period. And I think it took a few more years before I was like, No, this is a big deal for me personally, and I want to meet other atheists. And I want to eventually get active in these circles, because they’re doing things that I really appreciate, like starting groups on campuses and things like that.

Doug Berger 12:58
Yeah, and you did get out at a good time, because I saw that some of the symbols for Jainism is a swastika. So yeah, and of

Hemant Mehta 13:05
course, Jainism, it means peace, right, it doesn’t have any negative connotation. And it came along before World War Two. And so I, like, of all the things that were problematic about Jainism, which is generally innocuous. Um, that wasn’t even one of them. It was it was some of the other stuff.

Doug Berger 13:25
Just that when I was looking it up, that’s what interested me.

Hemant Mehta 13:28
Yeah. It’s funny because I remember reading like children’s books written from people, my age, kids at the time. And of course, they have that symbol in there. It’s part of a larger symbol representing peace and non violence, ironically, and things like that. And of course, again, the symbol gets hijacked for awful purposes later on.

Doug Berger 13:49
I noticed too, you mentioned it briefly. Earlier, that unlike a lot of atheists, you never you have never seen like you were on that believers or stupid burn the church’s training. What made you what made you tack towards engagement with believers?

Hemant Mehta 14:08
This is probably more true now than it was back then. But like, everyone is wrong about everything. Like the internet, right? Like everybody is wrong about whatever opinions they hold. I mean, religion is one of them. But again, I’m not gonna waste my time picking fights with everyone who’s religious because I genuinely do not care. I have enough stuff to worry about. I don’t care what you believe, or someone else believes you know what I mean? So the question that really guides me is what are they doing with their beliefs? There are plenty of progressive Christians, for example, progressive Muslims, who here are they wrong about God? Yes, they are. But is their faith guiding them to push for civil rights and social justice and, you know, equal rights for people? Yeah. Ah, they are not saying, you know, my faith tells me, you know, trans people don’t exist or some awful stuff like that. It’s like, why am I going to waste my time arguing with those people about their religion? Because honestly, that’s an argument that’s been going on forever, it will go on forever. It’s not like Richard Dawkins publishes The God Delusion, and then religion stops, like your arguments are not going to win over everybody. So I don’t waste my time going after them. And honestly, I’ve seen this with atheist groups over the past couple of decades as well. They went from being like outcasts in some ways to partnering with a lot of those groups on matters of Church State separation, I’m filing briefs to the Supreme Court saying they’re Muslim, they’re Jewish, they’re Christian, we’re atheists, we’re all in agreement that whatever this person or this group is doing is wrong. Like, that’s an amazing thing. You got to find those allies where you can, because some things, some differences you are not going to resolve. And so look, it’s not that it doesn’t matter. Of course, I think God doesn’t exist. And I’m passionate about that. But I don’t know, I’ve just never cared much about like debating the Christian apologists and debating, like the specific arguments about a fine tuned universe. I’m not saying it’s not important, I have friends who love debating that stuff. They’re really good at it. It just doesn’t. I’m not passionate about that. What I am passionate about is what people are doing with their religion. And so if that’s kind of where if their religion leads them to do good things, I can put the other stuff aside and focus on that, because we all are basically fighting a lot of the same enemies in a way.

Doug Berger 16:47
Yeah, and I do you see, and mainly in your social media posts, but you also do some blog posts, as you call out the hate preachers, like was a Greg Locke, people that call for the death of gay people. And, and,

Hemant Mehta 17:02
and there’s one specific denomination that really goes after the anti gay anti trans stuff, very hardcore, like 17th century preaching sort of thing. Greg Locke is not one of them. Here’s the thing with some of those people, like there are preachers out there who say awful things every week. But they have like 10s of 1000s of people, maybe in their churches, they have many more multiples of that watching on social media. So it’s not like it’s being set in a vacuum. Some of those hate preachers that I, I tweet out links to the stuff they’re saying, you could see their YouTube videos, they have, like dozens of viewers. It’s no one’s watching their shit. But it’s being said, and it’s being like they’re using the Bible to justify the stuff they’re saying. And so I like I want to call that stuff out. Because I think people deserve to know, this is what is being done in the name of your religion using the book that you think is a good book. And I’m not gonna pretend that most Christians agree with a preachers. But I mean, we can I’ve had this argument about like Westboro Baptist Church used to be a lot bigger back in the day, but there was always a debate of do you call them out for the horrible things they’re doing? Or do you ignore them, and just kind of hope they’ll go away, and they’re not going to go away? If anything, they’re going to build this small army of people. And I think it’s much better to say, Hey, look at what they’re doing. These people are using your religion, your book, you fight them, you go on the attack, I want Christians to call them out, why do I have to do it? And so with some of those hate preachers, and some of the guys like Greg Locke, who have a much bigger following online, sometimes you don’t need me to say religion is bad, or, you know, the Bible isn’t a good book. Sometimes it’s like, here’s what they’re saying. Just so you’re all aware of it. You defend this, if you don’t like it, or fight against it, if you don’t like it, because it’s being done. And the one thing I would add to that is the people I tweet about, yeah, they’re they’re very much the government if we had a good government would execute people who engage in sodomy. They say that at during sermons, but a lot of other much more mainstream preachers who don’t say that stuff. They still genuinely believe the substance of a lot of it. Right, so

Doug Berger 19:31
they believe that gay people should die in Hellfires.

Hemant Mehta 19:36
But yeah, that they’re gonna go to hell and die. You know, a marriage equality is a problem, or that, you know, homeless. Trans people don’t exist. They they believe all the same stuff, even if they don’t say like the logical next step to it.

Doug Berger 19:51
Yeah. Instead they vote for people like Lindsey Graham and right. And those people Yeah,

Hemant Mehta 19:56
right. Most white evangelicals vote for people who support this kind of behavior. So like either, you know, when we talk about white evangelicals voting, either you are racist, either you are bigoted, or you are voting for people who explicitly are like, I don’t care if you’re doing it directly or indirectly, this is what you’re supporting. And if you don’t like it, I’m not asking you to stop believing in God, I don’t think it’s I don’t think I have that power. But I am saying you don’t have to give money to churches that support this stuff. You don’t have to vote for candidates that support this stuff. Like there are plenty of things you could do that don’t involve joining me and believing what I believe. But I would hope a lot of Christians watch those same clips. And I hope they’re horrified by them because they should be.

Voice Over 20:49
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Doug Berger 21:17
You once back in, at least until 2014 taught high school math. Before you started working online full time, what’s your view of the current efforts by the religious right to take over the school boards and banned books?

Hemant Mehta 21:33
Yeah, it’s I mean, it’s scary. I taught math. So I’m probably more immune to the stuff happening right now than everyone else. But the idea that like, what helped me as a teacher was, like, I always had a set of this is the stuff I need to get done within this amount of time, like I worked at a big high school. So there were a lot of us teaching the same classes. It’s not that we had to do everything the same all the time. But it’s like, hey, this unit needs to be completed. By this time, here’s the stuff we need to cover. After that, we have the flexibility to do what we needed in the way that we wanted to do it. That was always nice. And it was nice to form bonds with the students I formed bonds with, you know what I mean? So the stuff that the REIT is suggesting is that if the kids know about your personal life, and form a bond with you that somehow indoctrination, it’s not that parents need to put a video camera in the classroom, like, just talk to your kids, if you have a good relationship with them, you would know what they’re doing in the classroom. And so the sort of things that they’re pushing for. I mean, I think the one thing that gives me hope is that a lot of the kids see through it, they know what’s going on. They’re not buying it either. The problem is that I don’t think a lot of parents understand how bad this stuff is, and how they’re voting makes a difference in it. And so that’s kind of the scary thing, because it’s so easy for the religious right for the conservatives to kind of rile people up about this stuff. And there’s no substance to anything they’re saying. And Democrats, by and large, are so scared to go on the attack, and say that’s not what’s going on. You can’t say that we are on the right side of this. There are so there’s so much playing defense that they never seem to take a strong grasp on the strong pushback on the other side. It’s very frustrating.

Doug Berger 23:34
Yeah. And I noticed too, because we had a lot of heated school board debates in my area. Because I live in I live in a blue bastion of red of a sea of red. Yeah. And my hometown, they had people complaining that school board all the time about mailing at this time mask mandates and, and things like that. And, and what I had to explain to some people was, this is just a few parents. This is like, probably less than a dozen parents that are highly vocal, they come to every meeting and complain constantly. And I said, I said, and I said that, right. And I said, you know, don’t get too worried about it. Keep an eye on it. But it’s like the sky is not going to fall these people that are on the school board. You know, they weren’t. I give them props, because I might the school board as following is they didn’t respond to any of it like publicly. And I said, you got

Hemant Mehta 24:40
the haters, the people who have these horrible ideas. I do think they’re a minority, but they like you said they’re a vocal minority. And the hardest thing to do is to get the other side, our side as active and engaged as the people who blow everything out of proportion. shouldn’t get all the details wrong, but they fall for the Fox News BS constantly. And it’s like, no, they’re a minority, but they make it sound like the sky is falling with every single thing. And there is not that level of engagement on the other side. So it’s, I mean, this is kind of the tactic on the right, use those few voices to pretend to make it seem like this is a big deal. And then just amplify the hell out of those few voices, even though they represent very few people, and just hope that you convince a bunch of the apathetic people that this is what’s going on. And that’s kind of the scary thing. My fear is not like, there are more conservatives or people on the religious right than the rest of us. It’s that there are so many people who just don’t care. And it’s really hard to get them engaged on anything. And that’s kind of the fear, because those people just sit on the fence, they’re very gullible, they’re very prone to just fall for whoever seems to be making a big deal of stuff. And if you know, liberals don’t capture those people, and say, like, look, this is what’s going on, you need to pay some attention. Like I get that not everyone can pay attention all the time, because there’s always stuff going on. But there are a few times whether it’s like a school board election, or an actual election for politics or something like, get involved, just fill out the damn ballot for the right people, and then go back to your day. Because if you don’t, there are plenty of people who are only in it for themselves who only exist, it seems to make everyone else’s life worse. And they’re gonna get away with it. If you just keep sitting on your ass and doing nothing.

Doug Berger 26:48
Yeah. And during the last election, I would tell when I was talking to friends of mine that didn’t would were doing that they’re like, I don’t care. I was like, Look, I’m a white cisgendered. Man, I don’t care who gets voted in, you know, Trump or Biden didn’t matter to me. I said, but I don’t want my friends to have to go through that. If the wrong if the wrong person gets elected.

Hemant Mehta 27:14
That’s exactly the thing like because of whatever privileges I have. Trump’s awful things didn’t necessarily affect me personally. But also like, who cares? What is in it for me? Like, how selfish does anyone have to be to say, No, doesn’t bother me? So whatever, let everyone else suffer, like, Oh, my God, how horrible do you have to be to go in with that mindset? And yet, that’s what a lot of Christians who claim to care for the poor and care for the least of these, they do not care about any of them, it seems, because they’re perfectly willing to throw them all under the bus.

Voice Over 27:56
This is Glass City Humanist.

Doug Berger 28:04
Recently, or it’s not even recently, it’s been within the last few years, secular people have taken it on the chin in the courthouse over church and state issues. Yeah. And it seems like they’re ready to do a wholesale hose down to the wall, the wall coming up. And they How did we go from protecting religious minorities and non believers, to using the court to protect the dominant sector in this country, and their bigotry?

Hemant Mehta 28:39
So here’s a perfect example of like, if you’re interested in secular activism, here’s the thing, the thing that you’re talking about, seems like it would be a good fit. Like, that’s the thing we should all care about. Isn’t it scary? When religious people are hell bent on destroying, you know, public health, like they did with the mass or trying to get tax payer dollars to fund private religious schools. That should be something we all care about, by and large, but if you want to fight against it, I mean, in this case, a lot of that happened because of the makeup of the Supreme Court, which happened because of the makeup of the US Senate. It happens because of the way state elections occur and who they elect like, so if you’re interested in changing that stuff. What do you do? And one way to do it is not necessarily go work for an atheist group. It’s get active in like a local progressive election group, or run for office yourself, or at least work on campaigns to help those people get elected. That’s where the focus would have to be. And so it’s like, I think if you go back several years, maybe you could make an argument. Here’s why Church State separation is good, here’s why it needs to be protected. But if you’re actually I don’t think that’s in doubt among progressives, but if you want to make that Shane Chapman, how do you make that happen? It’s not necessarily working for a atheist group. It’s worked for these other places that are trying to get the right people elected. What’s boggling? I mean, what’s mind boggling to me is how so many of those, like conservative atheist groups do not seem to care about any of that stuff. They’re fine with getting those other people elected in order to destroy Church State separation, and let religious arguments against LGBTQ people and abortion rights, like let them win. Because they just don’t care. Like, I don’t understand that mindset at all. Yeah, yeah. It’s

Doug Berger 30:39
like voting for somebody that is just the antithesis of what you believe. Yeah. You know, just because they believe something that you like, yeah. You know, I just don’t Yeah, I don’t get that.

Hemant Mehta 30:52
It’s a weird thing to think about. I’m always I’m still shocked by the fact that so many atheists like, our anti abortion or Republican, not because they can’t be I mean, I’m sure they can make arguments for anything. But it basically implies like, Yes, I’m an atheist, and I want the Religious Right to Control women’s bodies. And I want, you know, religious people on this, and I want people on the Supreme Court who will overturn religious freedom, so that, you know, a minority of vocal, you know, zealots can say, Nope, we want the virus to spread everywhere, because we gotta meet in church in person. And we, if we run a company, we shouldn’t be allowed to fire like, they just don’t care. They don’t care about any of it. They just want to troll the libs, that’s kind of the only thing they’re working toward.

Doug Berger 31:42
Yeah, I remember, decades, decades ago, back in the 90s. It was during when Colorado was allowing same sex marriage, it was like the first state to do it. And a prominent atheists writer for a group, a large group, who happened to be a libertarian, wrote a magazine article giving the tax implications of same sex marriage, and why he was against it. It was a tax reason.

Hemant Mehta 32:18
It’s a secular reason for why same sex marriage was bad, which again, intellectually Fine, let’s talk about that. Like, I want to say there is a difference between having that sort of argument. But also, I would say, I wouldn’t take that seriously, unless that person recognized openly that the thing they’re fighting for is exactly what the religious right once like, you can’t say, here’s the tax problems, which, which might be an interesting argument to make, without saying, but by the way, we shouldn’t cave in for this reason, because it’s religious bigotry, like don’t get out there and give religious bigots and a reason to get away with it. Like acknowledge that the thing you’re fighting for is actually playing right into their hands if they openly admitted that, like, I would maybe take it, I wouldn’t say I respect them, like maybe a little more. But like they don’t, they’re just like, yeah, critical race theory. It’s bad. We shouldn’t do any of that stuff. As secular people. And then the religious right takes that and runs. I mean, there’s one guy specifically like James Lindsay, who write who makes up a lot of this BS that Southern Baptists have you used to argue against, you know, critical race stuff. And it’s like, but James is like, I’m an atheist. I’m the reasonable one here. And I think he’s just a professional troll, but like, he would never acknowledge that the stuff he’s doing is ultimately helping religious conservatives, because I just don’t think he cares. So I mean, let’s get that out of the way. Just say that upfront. If your Silverman or your any of those Republican atheists now just come out and say, I do not care about any of you. I want religious conservatives to win and I’m going to fight for that. And here’s why. Just come out and admit it. Stop pretending you have some intellectual reason for doing whatever it is you do, because ultimately, that’s not what’s coming out.

Voice Over 34:24
Thank you for listening. For information about the topics in this episode, please visit the episode page at Quest city humanist dot show. Quest city humanist is an outreach of the secular humanists of Western Lake Erie, and is supported in part by a grant by the American Humanist Association. The AJ can be reached at American humanist.org surely can be reached at humanists, WL li.org The glass city humanist is hosted, written and produced by Douglas Berger and he is solely responsible for the content. Our theme music is glass city jam composed using the amplify studio See you next time