Fighting for Educational Transparency: Zach Parrish’s Journey

[1:00] With 2024 being an election year, I have been concerned about politics in general and our democracy here in the United States, and I’m very worried about some of the more extreme positions that some politicians are taking, not only in the state here in Ohio, but in the country, and some of the people that are affiliated with some of these extremist groups that are getting a lot of play recently. I can’t really mention any specific candidates that have me worried, but I’m sure if people know me and know this show and know what humanism is all about, you can probably discern, what I’m talking about. The political party I’m talking about that I’m worried about is the Republican Party.

[2:03] And mainly because they have gotten into bed. Well, I don’t know if they’ve gotten into bed. Probably, yeah, it’s probably a mutual thing with Christian nationalists. Christian nationalism is getting to be a big problem. Very worrisome. Um… And it really shouldn’t be, and I’ll explain. But what it is, you know, it’s these people who believe, Christian nationalism is these people who believe that the United States was founded as a Christian nation to benefit Christians.

[2:48] And that Christians are the chosen people, and that they are entitled to rule the country and to create laws and policies that echo the Bible, the Holy Bible. So basically they’re using the Holy Bible as a basis for laws. And what that means in the short term, if that comes to fruition, where they’re allowed to do that on a whole scale basis, is a lot of our friends or family are going to be hurt, because they’re going to do away with protections for LGBT people.

[3:30] They’re going to just gut the First Amendment when it comes to religious freedom. There’s just a whole host of things that are going to be a problem when people are using religion to gain political power. And that’s essentially what Christian nationalists are doing. Is they’re totally ignoring, for me, an atheist to tell people this, they’re ignoring the Christian teachings in order to gain political power. So what I like to do is when there’s an issue that I’m troubled by, I like to seek out material, either books or movies, that kind of distill a lot of the thought around those issues to help me try to frame it in my mind so that I feel better about it.

[4:33] And so this year, in 2024, there’s a couple of documentaries that have been released. The first one is titled Bad Faith. And the second one is called God and Country. And I finally had a chance to sit down and watch both of these documentaries. I’ve seen clips. I’ve seen trailers. I kind of already know a lot of the information that’s in it. But I really recommend that if you have a couple of hours on a, I don’t know, Sunday afternoon or, you know, here in the summertime, a lot of the stuff on TV is repeats. It’s not new material or it’s stupid material like those dating shows. Oh, I’m sorry. In case there’s people that like those dating shows. Anyway, you might want to sit down and watch these. One of these documentaries is kind of more scarier than the other in general. Bad Faith is focused on the politics and the architects of Christian nationalism. The political people who got together and decided, hey, let’s use religion to try to gain political power.

[6:02] God and country is more focused on people who are believers, who are Christian, who—and I know this is poor—doing poor arguments is when you do that, well, he’s not a real Christian, or the no true Scotsman fallacy. In this case, this isn’t a fallacy. What it is is they interview probably about a dozen Christians, various Christians, about how they are concerned about Christian nationalism. And they talk to like a Catholic sister and an evangelical preacher who is not an extremist. They talk to the creators of the VeggieTales cartoon series.

[6:55] Because that has some religious connotations to it, believe it or not, and things like that. And then they’ll discuss why this stuff that’s happening is not Christianity or why this particular political party is ignoring Jesus’ teachings, etc. So, if you want more of the political nuts and bolts and the infrastructure, figuring out who’s connected to who, I would recommend watching Bad Faith. That is based on the book by Catherine Stewart, The Power Worshippers.

[7:33] Because that’s one of the books that they used to base the documentary on. And then God and Country is more for people who are either Christians or know or have family members who are Christian, and they want to try to help them in their political education. So maybe you have a cousin or an uncle or a sister who is one of those MAGA people, and they’ve fallen into this trap about Christian nationalism. Maybe you could show them this documentary, and it might help. Uh for us humanists the the religious part of it the religious connotations of it is not so much the reason why i’m familiar with the documentary is americans united for the separation of church and state uh they have a couple people that’s in this in the documentary that speak like andrew seidel and and rob boston and they promoted it um god and country is produced by Rob Reiner, the film producer that did Stand By Me and When Harry Met Sally. He produced it along with his wife.

[8:58] But they’re both very good documentaries, and there’s a lot of different people that they interview show up in both films. Um bad faith takes its title from a book by randall balmer and we had a program uh this this past year where we watched a video where he was talking about the history of of christian nationalism and so he he talks about uh the that because uh one of the people that they They focus on in the film is Paul Reinrich. He is the political conservative operative that gets the idea of meshing Christianity with Republican politics in order to gain power. And that’s Christian nationalism. And so. If you were in that program where we showed the video about Randall Ballmer, you’ll know that prior to the early 70s, evangelical Christians didn’t care about abortion.

[10:10] They weren’t anti-abortion. In fact, the Southern Baptist Convention supported abortion in the late 60s. They thought that they should do away with the laws that banned abortion at the time. This was before Roe v. Wade. And when Roe v. Wade was decided, there was nary a ripple in the evangelical community. They didn’t care. It wasn’t until Paul Reinrich came in, and he saw that the evangelicals were starting to get politically active. And the reason why the evangelicals were getting politically active was because of racism.

[10:55] The Supreme Court had also ruled in, I think it was 1972, maybe, 73, that private religious schools that discriminated against racial, that had racial discrimination or supported racial discrimination could not call themselves a charity. They would lose their tax exempt status. That is what marshaled people like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson and and some of those guys, Frank, not Franklin Graham, Billy Graham. That’s what got all those guys together was they they were ticked off that they couldn’t discriminate against African-Americans. Americans so that’s why they started getting politically active and Paul Reimerick saw that that was.

[11:48] A stupid thing to hang your hat on, on segregation, you know, supporting segregation and being a bigot. So he found a common ground in abortion. And so he got these evangelicals to move their political aspirations to abortion. And that’s how we got the anti-abortion movement. And that’s kind of what built up, you know, that way then that you weren’t doing this Christian nationalism in order to maintain segregation.

[12:28] So what I wanted to do at this point is I wanted to play the audio from the two trailers. The first one’s going to be Bad Faith, and then after that, there’s going to be a slight pause, and then I’m going to play the trailer. God and Country. And again, these are available on different streaming platforms like Prime and Apple TV. God and Country has commercials, which is a little odd because it’s on Prime, but it’s the ad-supported version of Prime, so there’s commercials. Bad Faith, I don’t think, I think that was on Hulu. I think I watched that on Hulu. But you can find it. You can also purchase some. them. I think they’re coming out on Blu-ray or something like that shortly. I really encourage people to watch it, and hopefully you do, and keep up on this information. And here are the trailers.

[13:34] Everything can be reduced to right and wrong. Make no mistake about it.

[17:23] Those of us who grew up religious, I was nominally religious for most of my young life until I got into high school. Those of us who grew up in that environment, we remember Sunday Bible school because that was the fun part of church.

[17:44] Being in the sanctuary, listening to of the sermon, that was not so fun. But they had the Sunday Bible school, and you’d get together with other kids and a teacher, and she would, or he would, mostly she, would tell a story, a Bible story, like the boy who cried wolf, or I don’t know. I don’t know. That’s the only one I I ever remember vividly and, and you would, they would talk about it and, and try to get a sense about, you know, what does it mean for your religion? But it was all, I won’t want to say dumbed down, but it was for the audience, the young audience. We were probably, you know, seven or eight years old at the time for most of these. Anyway, so, you know, you’d have these stories and then you’d have a little craft time. You’d get your paper and glue and make things that was related to the Bible story that you just learned. Then you’d take them home, and then you’d rinse and repeat the next Sunday.

[18:52] Well, there is a group, a Christian nationalist group, that is attempting, especially in Ohio, to come into public schools all over the country. It’s called LifeWise. You know, I did a big interview with the co-founders of the Parents Against LifeWise group a couple episodes ago.

[19:17] So I hope you’re familiar with it. If not, go back into the archives, go to glasscityhumanist.show and check out episode, I believe it was 79, if you’re not familiar with it.

[19:32] So LifeWise claims to be teaching character values using Bible stories. And I had a chance to look at some of the curriculum. Now, most of the time, they do not allow outsiders to view the curriculum. You have to be employed or volunteer to get access. In this particular case, I saw this curriculum. And in reviewing some of these Bible stories that they’re using, I have to ask, do we want to be teaching young kids about human sacrifice, for example, for one example?

[20:18] So, as I said, LifeWise sets up in a local school district with parental permission. They take kids off campus because from previous court cases, they’re not allowed to have Sunday school on school grounds during the school day. And then they go to an off-campus site for Bible learning that’s disguised as character and value education. That’s what they call it. They call it character and value education, but it’s really just Sunday Bible school. Again, they refused to let the public review their curriculum and is, in fact, suing someone. In fact, we’ll hear a little bit of it here. One of the co-founders of the Parents Against LifeWise group who legally obtained a copy of that curriculum and posted it online. And he’s being sued. And I’ll have a segment about that here a little bit later.

[21:14] So, in reviewing this curriculum, I think I know why they refuse to let people outside of LifeWise see it. In the elementary curriculum that’s noted that it’s for kindergartners through third grade, lesson eight is about the character trait sacrifice. One segment of the lesson talks about God testing Abraham. And for those who don’t know the story, and I actually had to look it up, because I don’t remember the story. I mean, I kind of vaguely remember it. God tells Abraham to take his son up into the mountains and sacrifice him to show his loyalty to God. God wants Abraham to murder his own son to show how much he loves God.

[22:02] You know, that’s kind of wacky in and of itself. Even if I was still a Christian, That, to me, sounds creepy. Abraham does what God says and takes his son up the mountain. He builds an altar and is just about ready to do the deed. And an angel stops him and lets him know that since he was ready to murder his son Isaac, he knew he feared God. That means that he would do what God wanted, because that was the whole point of the test. blessed. On a side note, Isaac, his son, had no clue his father was prepared to murder him. And in fact, in that part of the story, when he’s about ready to be the sacrifice, he says, Father, where’s the lamb that we’re going to be sacrificing? Because back in the Bible times, when these stories are set, people sacrificed animals instead of people, generally. But in In this case, God wanted Abraham to sacrifice his son. So not only is LifeWise teaching little kids, now we’re talking about kindergartners through third grade, that human sacrifice can be a good thing as long as it’s for God. Here’s another tidbit.

[23:16] In the Lesson 8 plan, under Sacrifice, they have a section that says, Reinforcement Activities, 5-10 Minutes. It says, Act It Out, Older Students. It says, Lead Students to Act Out the Bible Story. Copy the following script for volunteers to read as they act out the roles of Abraham, Isaac, two servants, the angel of the Lord, and the ram. If possible, give them a hat or a prop to designate their characters. Remaining students can follow along in their bibles and then in a note at the bottom it says if time allows choose new volunteers to play the roles encourage students in the audience to gasp or cheer providing sound effects where appropriate so this activity in the lifewise curriculum is to have older students act out Abraham’s test. So they go through the whole motion of human sacrifice, and then one of them has volunteered to be the angel to stop the whole thing. It’s ridiculous. And then they have the other kids provide sound effects.

[24:26] So the reason why this is a problem is because we know that some young kids Kids have issues with what is real and what is not real. So should we really be teaching this particular story at this particular time? You know, I don’t think so.

[24:48] You know, I don’t think we should be teaching little kids about human sacrifice, no matter what the reason is.

[24:56] And if you think about it, if you’re like, well, oh, that’s just a parable, or that’s just a metaphor. And then I have to ask you, then, what’s the point? What’s the point of doing the story if it doesn’t mean anything? What it means is Abraham shows his devotion to God, so much so that he was going to murder his son to prove it.

[25:26] You know, that sounds like terrorism to me. That sounds like the Taliban in Afghanistan to me. But that’s not the only problematic story in the curriculum. I mean, there’s many others. And, you know, one of these days it’s going to be available and you can go through it. But this was the other one, the cursory glance I just did. They did a lesson about the trait submission. You know, right there, right at the start, the trait submission. The thing, the submission, is choosing to be under the authority of others. In the subtitle, it says, God is my good and perfect king, so I can submit to his desires for me. All right. And so one of the quotes here from that lesson is, submission means learning to be a good follower. Instead of doing our own thing, we can do what we are asked. We don’t talk back or demand our way. We choose to follow the leader, whether that is God, our parents, our teachers, or other good authorities God puts in our lives.

[26:38] And what’s in an ironic twist on this lesson, the title of the lesson is called Jacob’s New Name. And some of the activities have kids choosing a new name as a game. Yet, Joel Penton and LifeWise, they’re against kids choosing their own name to socially transition at school.

[27:02] Also, LifeWise training documents make clear that the order of authority for children is God and then their parents. So if this submission lesson was a secular lesson, it wouldn’t be called submission, for one thing, for a start. I’m not sure what it would be called. Probably following the rules, maybe? I don’t know. But it wouldn’t be called submission. The teacher would also talk about caveats to it, like, are you being hurt? Or has an adult asked you to keep a secret?

[27:43] Unlike this Bible story, we don’t teach kids to never question why an adult or parent is asking him to do something. There will be things a kid must do that they don’t want to do, like their homework or mowing the yard, But typically, they need to, quote, submit, unquote, as long as it’s not hurting them in some way that typically is illegal if uncovered. Now, they kind of cover themselves when they say that in the LifeWise lesson, it says, our parents, our teachers, or other good authorities. But, you know, how’s a kid going to determine that? How’s a kid going to know that this adult is a good adult, but, you know, something happens? Who knows? And what if a child actually murders their classmate and says that they did it because God told them to do it?

[28:48] LifeWise doesn’t have an answer for that. And that’s why I don’t believe it’s a good idea to have Bible class during a school day.

[29:05] But if you’d like more information about the problems with LifeWise, be sure to check out that recent episode of the Glass City Humanist. It was episode, I believe, number 79. It was back, I think it was published on June the 4th. So if you go to glasscityhumanist.show and look in the archives, you’ll see it.

[30:05] Music.

[30:13] Back in June, we published an episode with the co-founders of the group Parents Against LifeWise. And as you know, covering issues involving LifeWise is probably something I’ve devoted a lot of time on this program talking about. And I think it’s very important that we talk about LifeWise. For those that don’t know, LifeWise is the Christian nationalist group that is trying to attach itself to every public school in the country for Bible school during the school day. Not in the buildings, but they want to transport kids off campus and give them a Bible class once a week during the school day. And there’s a lot of issues. So if you haven’t listened to the original program that this epilogue is connected to, go ahead and do that. It’s episode 79, and it was published on June the 4th, and it’s almost an hour that I talked to Zach Parrish and Molly Gaines.

[31:34] This next segment was an epilogue or an additional interview I did with Zach Parrish last week.

[31:47] Because one of the things that he’s been doing to try to get people the information they need to make an informed decision about LifeWise is one of the issues is that LifeWise won’t share their curriculum with anybody outside of LifeWise. It’s a big secret. They claim it’s because they have a contract with the author of the curriculum, and they can’t distribute it publicly. All right. So, Zach legally obtained the material, and in the epilogue, we’ll talk a little bit about that. And he posted it on the Parents Against LifeWise website. In full.

[32:41] And LifeWise was not happy. They asked him to pull it down. He said no. They went to his website host. The website host pulled it down. Zach went ahead and put it up on a different file sharing platform.

[33:01] LifeWise had it pulled down from there. And then finally, LifeWise filed a federal lawsuit against Zach for copyright infringement. And that is what this interview, it’s about a 10 to 13-minute interview I did with him last week. That’s what we talk about, and I just wanted to introduce this clip, and again, if you want to hear the full original interview I did with both Zach and Molly, that’s episode 79, but here is Zach talking about the lawsuit. And I’m joined here with Zach Parrish, who was in part of the original interview. And what we’re going to talk about today is that Zach decided to put up on the Internet the entire curriculum that LifeWise uses. This is the curriculum that they have to spend money on. It’s part of the Gospel Project. And I looked it up, and it retails for per student something like $1,500 a year.

[34:11] And so Zach got access to it, and we’ll talk more about that, and published it on the internet, put it up on the internet.

[34:22] And LifeWise is now suing him for at least $150,000 as a copyright infringement claim.

[34:31] And so thank you for joining me today on this little extra part of the interview. Zach, I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having me. All right. Now, the first thing that we want to clear the air about is that you did not get that material illegally. Is that correct? No, not by any means. Nope. All I did was go through some Google links and type some different URLs, and they’ve accused me of using brute force slug attacks. I don’t even know what that is. They’ve accused me of using their source code in different reports. Literally, the only thing I did was go to www.whatever slash and then change that backslash to access the different videos. That’s how I access the training. The curriculum itself, once I access the training, it was super easy because they have videos showing you how to access it. They say that they only grant teachers access after they they say they only grant paid teachers access. But all I did was type in a universal password and I was granted access. There was no login whatsoever to get that curriculum. So so basically, in order for them to dumb down their system for just anybody to access it, you were able to access it. Yeah. And through through no software or any means like that. I mean, they’re literally trying to make it sound like I’m a hacker, and I don’t even know how to do that type of stuff.

[35:57] And also, to be clear, too, that they also filed a police report about it, and nothing came of it, correct? Right, correct. You know, the police report ended with, we don’t know if he committed a crime. We don’t understand, really. I mean, that’s the synapse of the police report, yeah. Yeah, and they did the same thing to the gentleman from Tiffin that has the website, too. They accused him of hacking their system and all he did was just normal everyday internet tools, and their website was not secure right they’re not only the information that they wanted they not only accused him of hacking they actually threatened felony charges in his cease and desist which is not legal you’re not supposed to threaten criminal charges in a civil cease and desist for their lawyers to do that is just unthinkable but they did you know so um when When you were notified about this lawsuit, how did you feel?

[36:52] I mean, I knew it was coming. It wasn’t a shock to me at all. I feel like I’m in the right, that’s for sure. And the attorneys that I’ve talked to all seem to think I have a pretty decent case. There are definitely different options we can take that we’ve been talking about. Yeah, I mean, I’ve never heard of a copyright infringement case coming from a third party.

[37:14] Usually it’s the creator of the material it’s supposed to sue. Right. And that’s a good point you bring up, because I’m not sure. I’m not sure about the legal details of it. But again, some of the lawyers that I’ve talked to have made it seem like they’re not the owners. They own a right to derivative work is how the agreement is written, and that’s how it’s read. So that is part of what my lawyers have been discussing. Not my lawyers. I haven’t paid for one yet. But the people that I’ve talked to, yeah, they’ve said that they don’t even know if they have the right to make this claim against me.

[37:48] And also, to be clear, too, you did not post this information to resell it, correct? You weren’t trying to undermine their business. No, I haven’t made a dime off of it. That’s their claim to damages. It’s so ridiculous. What they’re saying is that somebody who wants to start a LifeWise program might come to my website designed specifically in opposition and download the curriculum to avoid paying their licensing fee through LifeWise. That’s so absurd. Third, if you think your Christians that are working for you are going to come steal from you, maybe you should think about what you’re doing. I mean…

[38:23] The reason is parents need to be able to review this. They won’t share this curriculum with anybody, not with parents, not with school boards, not with other clergy members of different churches. If they’re coming into our public schools and asking to remove these kids, they should have to meet the same standards of transparency. When LifeWise has been asked to show their curriculum to parents before a program was established, they’ve refused, correct? They offer a 27-page sample, which is also noted in the complaint that they don’t not offer it. They don’t let people review it. They let them review 27 pages out of a 12-year curriculum. So, yeah.

[39:04] And if you could, could you describe some of the information that’s available in that curriculum off the top of your head? It’s basic religious stuff. You know, I don’t I don’t want to get into dragging down the stories and the parables individually, but it’s the basic religious stuff. I mean, you’re talking about Sodom and Gomorrah. You’re talking about the Book of Ruth, which is just about being submissive as a woman. In my in my view of that, it’s one of the worst books that they talk about is Ruth. You’ve got references to marriage being only between a man and a woman in the lessons, that type of thing. It’s the undertones of it. It’s the interpretation of it and how it’s being taught. You know, that’s really the issue with it. So basically it’s just cherry-picked Bible stories. And so I just find it hard to believe that they would claim a copyright on the Holy Bible. Right. I don’t understand.

[40:04] The materials, they have videos. I mean, that’s really what it comes down to is that they have little YouTube videos that they made. But yeah, it’s still just telling these Bible stories. Yes. So they are trying to make a profit off of the Holy Bible. Well, they’re not trying. They are making a profit. Yeah, they are. Very large profit. Yeah.

[40:24] And are you aware, how much do they charge a local program for the access to the curriculum? Do you happen to know? That’s a good question. I do not know because it’s not like it’s specifically invoiced or billed. It is just part of the initial startup costs that these programs have. It’s not like it’s a special charge that they list separately. So I don’t know what they charge for it. And what is the usual startup charge or the typical startup charge? I don’t want to say off the top of my head and get it wrong. I want to say $3,000, but I could be wrong. So this organization, LifeWise, that since 2017 has received 56 grants totaling almost $4 million, is charging local groups thousands of dollars to access Bible stories. And asking these local groups to raise their own money. I mean, that’s the other part of it. All of the local money comes from local donations. They’re entirely responsible for paying for the merchandise, for the marketing, for the transportation fees. They have to pay for everything at the local level.

[41:31] And those payments go to the headquarters, correct? Correct. Well, I think they put it in a fund. You have a debit card to make purchases with some of it type of thing. Yeah. So this lawsuit, there hasn’t been any hearings about it or anything. You’ve just been served with it. Yes, that’s correct.

[41:52] Has there been a court date set or anything? Do you know? Well, federal court is different than regular court. This is a brand new experience for me, so I didn’t know how it works. After they serve me, I have 28 days to submit a response to that. I guess that’s the equivalent of pleading guilty or not guilty, but it’s all done through paperwork. At the federal level, I guess. So I have 28 days since Monday. And is it, you’re obviously, you’re expecting it to cost you money to defend yourself, correct? Oh yeah. It’s going to cost a bare minimum of $10,000 just to even try to get a dismissal. LifeWise very much wants me to settle. They have said it in emails. They have said it in media requests. They requested a jury trial in the paperwork, but they’re also just willingly willingly offering to settle. I have no desire to settle. I’m not going to, uh, we can get it dismissed or I can defend myself and we can fight it, but I’m not going to settle because I don’t believe I’ve done anything wrong.

[42:50] Have they suggested what, what it would be to settle it? No, I imagine they just said, I imagine it would be for me to shut up and take the material down. And I’m not, I’m not going to take that material down until the court orders me to do so.

[43:04] And if somebody wants to help you with your legal fees, how would one go about doing that? We do have a GoFundMe page. You can just look up Stand with Parents Against LifeWise on GoFundMe. I think, I’m not sure what the link exactly is. I can provide it to you if you want to put it in the description or whatever. Well, there’s a link on your website too. Yes, yeah, that’s right.

[43:24] I’ve updated that website so much in the past week. And also, you know, how’s the reaction been in general to you and to the lawsuit?

[43:37] I’ve been so humbled. I can’t even express like how grateful I am. I really didn’t expect this outcry from the public. Like there’s been such an outcry of support. And I knew there would be enclosed circles, like I expected it from inside of the group. But even when this is being discussed publicly, everybody is very much in my

[43:54] corner and it just amazes me. The group itself has more than doubled in a week. So every news article, the media, you know, they’re talking about it.

[44:04] People are paying attention now. And that’s why I started this whole process was to make people aware of what was going on and give them a chance to fight back and be, you know, be knowledgeable about the subject yeah and it’s probably not the it’s definitely not the only uh pr disaster life-wise has happened we just found out today that one of their school directors was fired because they had a sexual um indiscretion at a school that they worked at as a teacher not just an indiscretion not just an indiscretion they they sent nudes allegedly to a student Right. But imagine that, that that did not get caught until now.

[44:50] Well, I find it hard to believe that it didn’t get caught when we have a comment that LifeWise deleted of LifeWise defending this person. They were aware of the charges, not charges. They were aware of the allegations and went out there defending her until they deleted the comments. So it’s not that they were unaware, doesn’t seem.

[45:08] Yeah according to the news report i read today uh she she was announced in april and then they said that they heard about it and then put her on administrative leave and investigated, last night they heard about it last night when it broke yes so you know and that’s one of the things that people have been talking about is that you know and of course to kind of throw life-wise a bone. Yeah. When you don’t do a real record check, you’re going to miss stuff like that because they said the school district sent a letter to the state. So it would have been on her teaching license file. She wouldn’t be able to be a teacher anywhere in the state of Ohio.

[45:53] Don’t look for that, though. Yeah, but that should be. Her license was not just revoked. She was barred from getting it again. I mean, that’s a second step. Those are two different things. You can get it revoked and get it back to some scenarios. She got it revoked and was barred from getting it again. Right. And so I’m with you. I think people like that should not be part of the LifeWise programs. I don’t want them around my kids. Right. If you can’t be paid by a school district to work with kids, you shouldn’t be able to volunteer to work with kids. Nope. Well, it was great catching up with you, Zach, about this situation. And I know, at least personally, I’m pulling for you. And I really think that the lawsuit is just, they’re just trying to drag you because they just don’t like you. And that’s one of the angles we’re looking at as far as defense,

[46:44] too, is trying an anti-SLAPP angle because this doesn’t seem like a winnable lawsuit for them. If that’s the case then that makes it a slap lawsuit and it’s just a whole different ball game then so yeah i’m weighing my options to see what we can do yeah and ohio just passed a law that outlaws slapping so i’m.

[47:02] In indiana unfortunately they didn’t file it in indiana but they did file in indiana there’s similar laws here from when i was talking to the attorneys so i’m really glad you have me on again so you’ve been really supportive in all this the whole time so i just want to thank you for that well thanks a lot zach and good luck on your court case yeah thanks.

[48:08] Music.